Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

David Arnold - El Alemán
I wasn't sure about questioning such a basic tool as malinig lists, so I asked Joel beforehand. I think he is right, in a open world, to whom it might interest, it's worth sharing...
I see this mailing list as a somewhat ineffictient tool to organize discussion (and there are very valuable ones!). I think other issues have priority, so this might be a hook for the record...
If You're interested on this opinion, read on...

Comments in light blue.​

2014-06-23 17:21 GMT-05:00 Joël Grand-Guillaume <[hidden email]>:
Dear David,


First of all, I think it's a free world and sharing your thoughts is your right. This is also what I like in the open source world. So feel free to write it publicly if you want to.

I understand this may be an issue. In the other hand, we currently focus on so many very high priority tasks to start running the OCA: handling a github migration, discussions with Odoo, setuping the project steering committee, new website,... . We will not have the time to discuss that topic right now.

But, every project will benefit from some tools we'll provide them, like a shared and public project to run their projects and tasks. More news on the new coming website. I have the hope that for working together it'll bring his lot of advantages.

I suggest to have a try on what's we've done so far and see if the need for an OCA forum will be necessary. But we tend to think that in that case, we should use the official one provided by odoo here : https://www.odoo.com/forum/Help-1
​​
I tend to challange some offical developements, as exposed in previous posts.

Pro: Might help with the development of those official modules.

Contra: 
- Might further disencourage interconnectivity with other projects. I already percieve odoo as a rather closed community because of many "we do it our way" decisions. This just reduces hooks and ease to join in. As a sidenote. 
- Regarding forum solutions, I think the odoo one is a specifically unsuitbale solution. I believe somewhat in the repartition of labor and expertise and would encurage the use of a benchmark tool. Like this official tools would benefit from "new" influences, and community could draw upon state-of-the-art in every aspect.

Supporting References:
- Its Q&A centric, not discussion centric...

Alternative bold vision:
Integrate community in a open collaborative enterprise portal, just without the "boss part".



Hope this helps and give you the informations you wanted.

Best regards,


Joël


On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 10:17 PM, David Arnold - El Alemán <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Joel

I'm writing here, because this is quite a fundamental suggestion and I maybe ignore important facts and don't want to offend.

I feel about the mailing list, that it is somehow diffcult to organize and track informaction for oneself. When I should compare it with another form of communication, It maybe would construct analogy with people sitting around a fireplace and talking. 

There are some hardliner fireplacer, and there are people coming when they are cold and going again if they are warm again...

What I mean is, that the history of talks is not very well organized and therefore not so accessible and therefore, although not physically lost, lost in a "de facto" sense.

Probably we could start thinking about a more apropriate community forum. I don't have specific suggestoins but I wanted to drop the idea. I myself feel sometimes bad posting issues in such an unorganized manner in the general inbox.

If you feel this is not to offensive (mainly to the hardliner fireplacers), feel free to make this community discussion.

Best David



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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Martin Collins
On 2014-06-23 17:45, David Arnold - El Alemán wrote:
>
> I see this mailing list as a somewhat ineffictient tool to organize
> discussion (and there are very valuable ones!).

As a 'hardliner fireplacer' I'd want to see a superior system before
supporting a switch. Never have yet.

> ​Comments in light blue.​

Looks green to me. The main problem I see with mailing lists is most
people don't know how to use them properly anymore. I admit the large
body of netiquette required for maximum effectiveness is not all
self-evident, and many MUAs encourage bad habits these days, but the
foundation is sound. Better archive searching and a 'lint for mailing
lists' MUA plugin would be good.

> open collaborative enterprise portal

Sounds awful :-)

Martin

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

David Arnold - El Alemán

2014-06-23 21:02 GMT-05:00 Martin Collins <[hidden email]>:
Looks green to me. The main problem I see with mailing lists is most
people don't know how to use them properly anymore. I admit the large
body of netiquette required for maximum effectiveness is not all
self-evident, and many MUAs encourage bad habits these days, but the
foundation is sound. Better archive searching and a 'lint for mailing
lists' MUA plugin would be good.

​+ 1 for lint for mailing lists helping which text belongs to whom in which color confusions.. ;-)​ or just zeroing out footers with those beautiful images.
however i think better tools are probably available, inclkuding spellchecking, helping with translations (not all recipients speak sufficient english to participate), and above all, better history search, and superior threading. Tools finally matter, don't they? ;-)

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Leonardo "LeartS" Donelli
As someone who just recently (like less than a week ago) joined the
mailing list, I have to say the footers / signatures with all the
company pic, logo, disclaimer, etc are one of the most annoying things
ever. I've read two threads and already can't stand them anymore.

2014-06-24 4:23 GMT+02:00 David Arnold - El Alemán <[hidden email]>:
> + 1 for lint for mailing lists helping which text belongs to whom in which
> color confusions.. ;-) or just zeroing out footers with those beautiful
> images.

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Davide Corio-2
On 03 Jul 2014, at 14:49, Leonardo LeartS Donelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> As someone who just recently (like less than a week ago) joined the
> mailing list, I have to say the footers / signatures with all the
> company pic, logo, disclaimer, etc are one of the most annoying things
> ever. I've read two threads and already can't stand them anymore.

+1

html emails should be avoided

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Mariano Ruiz

+1 avoid signatures with images and large slogans

El 03/07/2014 09:53, "Davide Corio" <[hidden email]> escribió:
On 03 Jul 2014, at 14:49, Leonardo LeartS Donelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> As someone who just recently (like less than a week ago) joined the
> mailing list, I have to say the footers / signatures with all the
> company pic, logo, disclaimer, etc are one of the most annoying things
> ever. I've read two threads and already can't stand them anymore.

+1

html emails should be avoided

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Martin Collins
On 2014-07-03 07:03, Mariano Ruiz wrote:
> +1 avoid signatures with images and large slogans

And top-posting :-)
Sadly, for many people, the logos and disclaimers are added by corporate
dictat at the MTA so cannot be avoided.
Those replying should remove them though.

Martin


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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Davide Corio-2

On 03 Jul 2014, at 15:10, Martin Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And top-posting :-)

+1

> Sadly, for many people, the logos and disclaimers are added by corporate
> dictat at the MTA so cannot be avoided.

It’s always possible to create a gmail account or so :)

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Mariano Ruiz

Sorry Martin but I disagree with you, the top-posting is the most practical way, makes more easy follow large threads, but it just my opinion.

El 03/07/2014 10:19, "Davide Corio" <[hidden email]> escribió:

On 03 Jul 2014, at 15:10, Martin Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And top-posting :-)

+1

> Sadly, for many people, the logos and disclaimers are added by corporate
> dictat at the MTA so cannot be avoided.

It’s always possible to create a gmail account or so :)

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Davide Corio-2

On 03 Jul 2014, at 15:26, Mariano Ruiz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sorry Martin but I disagree with you, the top-posting is the most practical way, makes more easy follow large threads, but it just my opinion.

When you read an article or a book, you start from the top of the page.
In an email thread, if you do top posting the others need to read the conversation starting from the bottom in order to understand the whole story.

Top posting is mostly accepted in business communications when you just whant to say yes to something or confirming a meeting, not on technical mailing lists.

cheers,
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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Martin Collins
In reply to this post by Mariano Ruiz
On 2014-07-03 07:26, Mariano Ruiz wrote:
> Sorry Martin but I disagree with you, the top-posting is the most
> practical way, makes more easy follow large threads, but it just my opinion.

Most people read from top to bottom. Forcing people to do otherwise is
rude. Which part of the long thread you couldn't be bothered to cut are
you replying to exactly?

There is a long history of tried and tested netiquette for effective
mailing lists. It is not arbitrary nor, for the most part, a matter of
opinion.

Martin


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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Ian Beardslee-2
In reply to this post by Mariano Ruiz
+1

As you read each email in the thread you just need to read the top as
you work your way through the emails.  Easier than scrolling through
what you've already read in the previous emails that people have been
replying to.

But, each to their own.  Just don't be like one of the other ERP type
systems that will ban people from their lists for top posting.



On Thu, 2014-07-03 at 10:26 -0300, Mariano Ruiz wrote:
> Sorry Martin but I disagree with you, the top-posting is the most practical
> way, makes more easy follow large threads, but it just my opinion.

> El 03/07/2014 10:19, "Davide Corio" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
> >
> > On 03 Jul 2014, at 15:10, Martin Collins <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > And top-posting :-)
> >
> > +1
> >
> > > Sadly, for many people, the logos and disclaimers are added by corporate
> > > dictat at the MTA so cannot be avoided.
> >
> > It’s always possible to create a gmail account or so :)
> >
> > --
> > Davide Corio
> > [hidden email]
> > ERP Consultant
> > L.S. Advanced Software Srl
> >


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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Davide Corio-2

On 03 Jul 2014, at 22:14, Ian Beardslee <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> But, each to their own.  Just don't be like one of the other ERP type
> systems that will ban people from their lists for top posting.

i don’t think the way we reply to emails is a real issue here.
we just need to be sure the others can understand us without going nuts.

cheers,
--
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[hidden email]
ERP Consultant
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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

David Arnold - El Alemán
++11

Still hope for a technically more advanced, thread centered solution. maybe within the oca-odoo?


BTW, please note: Here is my new cool signature ;-)

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Wouter Tebbens
In reply to this post by Martin Collins

On 07/03/2014 04:10 PM, Martin Collins wrote:

> On 2014-07-03 07:26, Mariano Ruiz wrote:
>> Sorry Martin but I disagree with you, the top-posting is the most
>> practical way, makes more easy follow large threads, but it just my opinion.
>
> Most people read from top to bottom. Forcing people to do otherwise is
> rude. Which part of the long thread you couldn't be bothered to cut are
> you replying to exactly?
>
> There is a long history of tried and tested netiquette for effective
> mailing lists. It is not arbitrary nor, for the most part, a matter of
> opinion.
+1 against top posting; a serious discussion you read from top to
bottom, that's proven netiquette indeed.

+1 to avoid html & redundant corporate signatures.

best,
http://Wouter.Tebbens.org

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Peter Langenberg
+1 avoid signatures with images and large slogans

People having this should create a free gmail address (I'm sure they
already have one).

Peter


2014-07-04 9:30 GMT+02:00 Wouter Tebbens <[hidden email]>:

>
> On 07/03/2014 04:10 PM, Martin Collins wrote:
>> On 2014-07-03 07:26, Mariano Ruiz wrote:
>>> Sorry Martin but I disagree with you, the top-posting is the most
>>> practical way, makes more easy follow large threads, but it just my opinion.
>>
>> Most people read from top to bottom. Forcing people to do otherwise is
>> rude. Which part of the long thread you couldn't be bothered to cut are
>> you replying to exactly?
>>
>> There is a long history of tried and tested netiquette for effective
>> mailing lists. It is not arbitrary nor, for the most part, a matter of
>> opinion.
> +1 against top posting; a serious discussion you read from top to
> bottom, that's proven netiquette indeed.
>
> +1 to avoid html & redundant corporate signatures.
>
> best,
> http://Wouter.Tebbens.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Alejandro Santana
+1 for top posting.
Top is new. Bottom is old.

Bottom-posting may be nice when the thread is short and massages also short. But having a N-messages thread (let's say 74), with long texts, becomes a real annoyance to skip (N-1) messages I have already read in previous mails. My mouse wheel suffers everytime.

+1 to avoid long signatures, yet sometimes it is company policy to use company mail and include such bloat of logos and so.



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2014-07-04 13:58 GMT+02:00 Peter Langenberg <[hidden email]>:
+1 avoid signatures with images and large slogans

People having this should create a free gmail address (I'm sure they
already have one).

Peter


2014-07-04 9:30 GMT+02:00 Wouter Tebbens <[hidden email]>:
>
> On 07/03/2014 04:10 PM, Martin Collins wrote:
>> On 2014-07-03 07:26, Mariano Ruiz wrote:
>>> Sorry Martin but I disagree with you, the top-posting is the most
>>> practical way, makes more easy follow large threads, but it just my opinion.
>>
>> Most people read from top to bottom. Forcing people to do otherwise is
>> rude. Which part of the long thread you couldn't be bothered to cut are
>> you replying to exactly?
>>
>> There is a long history of tried and tested netiquette for effective
>> mailing lists. It is not arbitrary nor, for the most part, a matter of
>> opinion.
> +1 against top posting; a serious discussion you read from top to
> bottom, that's proven netiquette indeed.
>
> +1 to avoid html & redundant corporate signatures.
>
> best,
> http://Wouter.Tebbens.org
>
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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Leonardo "LeartS" Donelli
Bottom-posting may be nice when the thread is short and massages also short. But having a N-messages thread (let's say 74), with long texts, becomes a real annoyance to skip (N-1) messages I have already read in previous mails. My mouse wheel suffers everytime.

​What you are describing is not correct bottom posting. You should only keep the relevant part of the previous message you're replying to​, not everything. Like this.

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

David Arnold - El Alemán
Discussion about top and bottom won't probably ever have any effect or improove the situation. Nor probably would it about logo/signature.
Discussion about better tools, however, would indeed.

I really don't understand why we don't explore the available tools out there in order to find something better and start a discussion about that​.
I searched for example for a gmail pulgin which would automatically clean the message history incl. signatures, but didn't (strangely enough) find anything.

Suggestions, loose ends, unordered:
- Yammer
- Odoo Messages
- Hipchat (integrates with git)
- you name it

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Re: [Openerp-community] Community Mailing List

Martin Collins
In reply to this post by Leonardo "LeartS" Donelli
On 2014-07-04 06:26, Leonardo "LeartS" Donelli wrote:
>
> ​What you are describing is not correct bottom posting. You should only
> keep the relevant part of the previous message you're replying to​, not
> everything. Like this.

Right, except you should keep the 'wrote' line, particularly if you are
replying to more than one person at a time.

Martin


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